The Muniment Room:Reference desk
From The Muniment Room, a resource for social history, family history, and local history.
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| Users can leave questions here at the '''Reference Desk''' and a volunteer will work to help you find the information you need. | Users can leave questions here at the '''Reference Desk''' and a volunteer will work to help you find the information you need. | ||
| - | ==Post your question== | + | ==Post your question [this page is now archived and this feature disabled] == |
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| + | == Rev. Frederick Septimus Stockdale == | ||
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| + | I am researching my family's early English ancestry and came across the name of the Rev. Frederick Septimus Stockdale as a lessee in the IOW properties. I believe this man fits into my research and would appreciate any inormation on him that you can furnish. Thank you! [[User:Tannutuva|Tannutuva]] 1 April 2010 (BST) | ||
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| + | :The lease is dated 31st December, 1869, for 1,000 years between [[John Brown Willis Fleming]] and Frederick Septimus Stockdale, for property at [[Havenstreet]] -- [http://www.willisfleming.org.uk/estates/wiki/images/2/26/Havenstreetplan1950.jpg no.191 on this plan]. Does this match up with what you know? [[User:Admin|Admin]] 17:04, 1 April 2010 (BST) | ||
| == The Grange at Swaythling == | == The Grange at Swaythling == | ||
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| thanks in advance and here's hoping. | thanks in advance and here's hoping. | ||
| Jill Harrington, nee Coward | Jill Harrington, nee Coward | ||
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| + | == Rackland Manor. == | ||
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| + | Being rather new to this wonderful site I was very interested in the entry about Rackland Manor.I believe that it is in fact on the coast ,south of Shanklin.About 10 years ago I noticed an advertisment in Country Life magazine for a really nice seaside Villa.I contacted the Agents to send me details.When they arrived I was suprised to read that it was built ,they thought,by the Willis Fleming family.Indeed,one of the pictures in the brochure showed the family Coat of Arms over the front door.[[User:Old Swinton|Old Swinton]] 20:21, 23 May 2010 (BST)David R Knowles 23.05.2010 | ||
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| + | :This is really interesting - it would be good to find out some more about this ... [[User:Admin|Admin]] 10:41, 22 June 2010 (BST) | ||
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| + | == Pyle Manor. == | ||
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| + | In the early 1960's Brig.John Browne Willis Fleming was living with his wife at Pyle Manor,Chale,IOW.Do you know if the family owned or rented or leased the Manor as i do not see it mentioned elsewhere.[[User:Old Swinton|Old Swinton]] 15:39, 24 May 2010 (BST)24.05.2010. | ||
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| + | :Pyle Manor was bought by J B P Willis Fleming in the 1960s, when he moved back to live on the isle of Wight, and so historically Pyle had not been part of the Fleming Estate. However, the Fleming family did own other property in Chale, Kingston, and Shorwell, as a deed of 1600 reveals. [[User:Admin|Admin]] 10:39, 22 June 2010 (BST) | ||
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| + | == Orpet family == | ||
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| + | I have information that William Orpet (Worpet in some records) was born on 18.03.1804 in Chilworth. His mother was Mary Orpet (Worpet) and he has no father on his birth certificate. He apparently lived on the Chilworth estate all his life and was a carpenter. Are there any records? I would like to trace his mother. Did she also work on the [[Chilworth Estate]]? (My great grandmother was an Orpet.) Catherine Harrison 03.08.2010 | ||
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| + | :Thank you. As you probably know, the Orpet family were living at Chilworth at the time of the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses at least. I'm surprised they don't appear on [[Settlement to several uses including to provide for use of the surname and arms of Fleming, 1837|this document]]; one reason might be that they were sub-tenants in 1837, renting from another tenant. By 1851, William Orpet seems to be running the public house at Chilworth (the [[Clump Inn]]?), as well as being a carpenter. In 1854, William was an overseer for the poor for the parish. William Orpet of Chilworth was fined in 1868 for leaving his horse and cart unattended in Southampton. In 1871 William and Frances Orpett were living at [[Castle Cottage]], Chilworth. | ||
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| + | :The records are very patchy for the Chilworth Estate, unfortunately, especially for the early 19th century. The Willis Fleming family only acquired the estate in 1825, and I don't think there are any earlier estate records. If you want to see if the Orpet name goes further back at Chilworth, it might be worth looking at the survey of Chilworth made around 1650-1700 - it is at the Hampshire Record Office, ref. Clayton MSS 3M49/8. | ||
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| + | :I hope other researchers might be able to help you more ... [[User:Harrywf|Harrywf]] 17:23, 5 August 2010 (BST) | ||
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| + | == Invercharron Estate == | ||
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| + | I am researching my wife's great grandfather, who is listed in the 1901 census of Scotland as; Robert Grant, residing at Invercharron, occupation Estate Manager. I wondered if the Willis Fleming Estate at Invercharron could be the "Estate" I am looking for. Thank you for any help you may give. [[User:Ramrod|Ramrod]] 09:10, 24 September 2010 (BST) | ||
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| + | :Many thanks for your question. I think this is likely, if the Invercharron is at Ardgay in Sutherland. The Fleming family purchased the Invercharron estate in 1935/6. We do hold some details of people working on the estate at that time, which I will have a look at - but bear in mind that it will more than 30 years after the census. Do you know anything more about Robert Grant? [[User:Admin|Admin]] 09:46, 24 September 2010 (BST) | ||
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| + | Robert Grant was born 3rd Oct 1865 in Dornoch Sutherland, where he continued to reside until about 1881. | ||
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| + | He married Hughina Fraser in Inverness during 1893. Then in 1901 was resident in Invercharron, Kincardine parish with his Wife, son William 6 and daughter Mary Ann 3 both born at Ardgay. | ||
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| + | His registered occupation;- Estate Manager, also residing with the family was Isabella Nicol a domestic housekeeper. | ||
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| + | I notice from your 1938 rent roll, a Grant R, Invercharron, could this be the Robert Grant I am searching for? Many thanks, ramrod. | ||
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| + | == Wallace Barton, Lynn Farm IOW == | ||
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| + | Can you give me any information about the above who was the tenant of Lynn Farm in 1912. Thankyou [[User:Grabadoc|Grabadoc]] 12:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC) | ||
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| + | == Jacob and Rebecca Weston == | ||
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| + | Jacob and his sister Rebeccca Weston are shown as living in Bassett in the N Stoneham census of 1851 - he is shown as a baker. Any record of a bakery? Jacob has died by 1861, in the census Rebecca is shown in Bassett Lane running a grocer shop, and again in 1871 (by which time she is 81 years old!). I have seen reference to Miss Weston as a tenant on the archives here. Any information on this family or their bakery/shop would be much appreciated. | ||
| + | [[User:Paddy|Paddy]] 11:59, 20 October 2011 (BST) | ||
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| + | Doncaster Farm | ||
| + | Doncaster farm is now a car park,which is beside Avenue Park.I noticed looking up Farms on this webpage that the Doncaster farm fields were where the Doncaster Estate in Eastleigh is now.I do remember the farm,which is now a car park.It was a small farm.It seems strange to me that the Farm's fields were some way away. | ||
Current revision
Users can leave questions here at the Reference Desk and a volunteer will work to help you find the information you need.
Post your question [this page is now archived and this feature disabled]
- if you are logged in, click here, which will add your question below this text. Please sign and date your question by typing ~~~~ (four tildes) at the end of your question.
- If you don't have an account, click here to add a question.
Rev. Frederick Septimus Stockdale
I am researching my family's early English ancestry and came across the name of the Rev. Frederick Septimus Stockdale as a lessee in the IOW properties. I believe this man fits into my research and would appreciate any inormation on him that you can furnish. Thank you! Tannutuva 1 April 2010 (BST)
- The lease is dated 31st December, 1869, for 1,000 years between John Brown Willis Fleming and Frederick Septimus Stockdale, for property at Havenstreet -- no.191 on this plan. Does this match up with what you know? Admin 17:04, 1 April 2010 (BST)
The Grange at Swaythling
As i use the grange as it is today for nature walks, we are bringing the history back to life during the walks. I'm also trying to get the area recleaned up as a place of relaxation as the authorities have allowed it to fall into derelict category. i would also like when funds are available put an information board indicating how the grange used to look with surrounding area many thanks BOBP Bobspicturebox 19:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Moody of South Stoneham
My great great grandfather Abraham Alford married Eliza MOODY in 1841 at South Stoneham. Her father was William MOODY also of South Stoneham. The 1845 Tithe Map of South Stoneham shows William Moody as gardening at land owned by St Mary's College Winchester. I suspect he may have also been a tenant elsewhere. Any information would be greatly appreciated. PENNY 08:15, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
I see William Moody appears on the Estate Rent lists for 1858 and 1872 at Stoneham. This would seem to be the correct William. (Small) is in brackets - I assume that is a small holding? Also James in 1837, 1858. Can anyone add additional information please?
Jubilee Cottage, Chilworth
I was just wondering if anybody knew anything about Jubilee Cottage on the former Chilworth Estate. I am researching this building which is shortly due for demolition. I went to the Hants Record Office today and managed to get a pretty good map regression from the present to its first appearance in the OS 1st Edn 25". It is not present on the 1867 Chilworth Inclosure map. It appears to have only been called 'Jubilee Cottage' from the 1963 map onwards.
The building is located adjacent to (and partially hidden by) woodland, 108m south-west of the main A27 and c.30m north-west of the University Parkway which runs down to the present science park. Rousm 10:31, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
original lessees in 19th and 20th centuries - Fred Woolley
I am currently researching my family tree and have a found a "Fred Woolley" on your list of original lessees in 19th and 20th centuries. I wonder if this is the same Fred Woolley to whom I am related? He was an Alderman, accountant and Mayor of Southampton in the early 1930s, resident in the S. Stoneham / West End areas of Southampton. Any information would be gratefully received. --Adquinn 16:02, 31 August 2009 (BST) Andrew Quinn
- This Fred Woolley was a party to a 1,000-year lease for a property at Chilworth Drove in Chilworth called 'Nattadon' (just south of the M3). The lease was dated 7 July 1930. You probably known that Stoneham Park House, the Hampshire Home of Recovery, was renamed Fred Woolley House, in honour of the former Mayor, for his work for Southampton Hospitals. harry 15:31, 3 September 2009 (BST)
Francis William TYRELL
The above named is I believe my Great Grandfather and I would appreciate any information you may have on him. Best regards John.
- There is a building lease dated 14th February, 1906, for 1,000 years between John Edward Arthur Willis Fleming and Francis William Tyrell, for a property on Bassett Avenue, Southampton. F W Tyrell was still paying a ground rent in 1938. Admin 11:42, 13 October 2009 (BST)
Drawing of South Stoneham House
Photograph of persons at a sawmill
The Read brothers
The 1938 list of tenants includes three of my Gt Uncles, the READ brothers, A READ, Arch READ and F READ.
A READ is Augustus [b 1891 in Havenstreet], known as Gus, who lived at Pitts Cottage, Down End;I don't know how long he lived there but it was some considerable time as he was there in 1920 when he took in my Mother whose mother had died and was still a tenant in 1938 [though maybe somewhere else on the Estate by then] Arch READ is Archibald [ b 1894 in Havenstreet] who lived in Church Lane Havenstreet, also from [at least] the early 1920's.
F READ is Frederick [b 1888 in Ryde] who lived ina cottage near the school on the main street, Haven St.
They were all sons of James READ who was the village baker in Havenstreet and kept a small shop there.. If any one has other information about these READs, please post it here. I should be interested to hear it.
Iwlace 11:29, 25 June 2009 (BST), S Stallard
- I found an interesting note in an Estate document from 1952 -- see Pitt Cottages, where I've added it as a reference. It shows that Gus was still living at Downend in 1952, and was the estate foreman at that time. Harry. Admin 18:16, 7 July 2009 (BST)
- It seems that Gus Read spent most [if not all] of his married life at Down End : he was 29 in 1920 [married 1917] and about 60, nearing the end of his working life, in 1952. Iwlace 21:38, 7 July 2009 (BST)
- I know you've already seen it, but Memorial by the agricultural tenants of the Fleming Estate, Isle of Wight, 1943 includes Gus Read and Fred Read. Admin 12:50, 9 July 2009 (BST)
- I found this letter: Letter of Pink & Arnold to Gus Read, 1930. Admin 13:01, 30 July 2009 (BST)
Thomas Sibley of Arreton
Thomas Sibley was a farmer who rented some 38 acres at Arreton from the Fleming Estate in the early 19th century. He is listed in the 1841, 51, and 61 censuses, but I don't know the name of the farm. Admin 14:49, 16 July 2009 (BST)
Country lane at North Stoneham
- It looks like the junction of Stoneham Lane and Chestnut Avenue. maggie port 30 Mar 2009 (BST)
The round hall at Stoneham House
I used to live in one of the thatched cottages that belonged to the Fleming Estate in North Stoneham, in the garden there I found a piece of plinth from what must have been quite a large column, it is pink white and brown and quite pourous. The inside of the round hall as depicted by Ursula Moray Williams in her book on the library, she shows columns which are remarkably like the piece I found. SO DID THE ROUND HALL LEADING TO THE LIBRARY EVER EXIST? maggie port 16 Mar 2009 (BST)
- Maggie, thanks for posting the enquiry! North Stoneham House did indeed have a large round hall - originally it was called the Saloon or Music Saloon, but over the years it was also referred to as the Round Hall, the Rotunda, and even the Ballroom. It is one of my favourite features of the house. The illustration in the book contains much artistic license! The real room was much taller, reaching up through two floors to the roof, and surmounted by a shallow dome, with a lantern filled with painted glass. The saloon had a balcony or gallery midway up its height, and it is this that was supported by the pink marble columns. The room was 30 foot in diameter.
- The columns were not made of real marble, but were scagliola, supposedly in imitation of Rosso Brochette marble. They were a vivid, bloody pink - and looked rather like raw meat! The walls were of the same pink scagliola. When I interviewed Ursula Moray Williams in 2006, she described the eerie pink light that was diffused through the room. The Saloon was part of the original phase of the house, built from 1818, and was one of the few rooms that survived unchanged. If the house was designed as a Greek temple, then the Saloon was the 'cella'. We hold a great deal of information about the Saloon in our archive, which I will show you ... Admin 20 Mar 2009 (BST)
- Thank you for the photograph of your wonderful fragment. As I said in my email, I can confirm that it is part of a red scagliola column from the house. Admin 20 Mar 2009 (BST)
Portrait of unidentified man, 1877, by Ernest Gustave Girardot
Any more information about the sitter, the artist, or the original painting will be much appreciated! Admin 25 Mar 2008 (BST)
- I am now certain that the sitter is Francis Smith Arnold (1832-1916) after comparing this portrait with a photograph of him. Francis was the land agent and steward for the Fleming Estate, and partner in the firm Pink & Arnold. Admin 4 Feb 2009 (BST)
People at North Stoneham Farm, 1931?
- Harold Barstow writes: "It is one of the cottages at the rear of the airport, once attached to North Stoneham Farm alongside the Itchen Navigation Canal shown beside them. Two of the persons are Mr and Mrs Molden." Admin 3 May 2008 (BST)
- Hello, My Father's John Aldred who used to lived in the cottage at the far right looking at the photo. Mr and Mrs Molden was the farm owners and the two girls are believed to be the daughters of the Molden family as they do have two sons names George and Austin, the daughters names Molly and not sure what the second daughter name was. John Aldred was born and raised on North Stoneham Farm in 1931. My Father also work on that farm and remember the history of his time there. John left the Farm in 1945 to work on another Farm in Petersfield then John's Mother Anne got married and then the change of surname to his Sept Father, now John Spreadbury. He said in 1934 the thatch cottage got burn down, it took two years rebuild the cottage. My Father 's John is looking for any history connect to the farm, like any photos of the North Stoneham Farm and who is alive today to share the memory of his time there. shaun28 31 Dec 2008 (BST)
Photograph of persons at a sawmill
Fred Woolley House
I'm looking for some details about Fred Woolley House !!! vicky2 31 January 2009 (BST)
- Vicky, many thanks for your message. Admin 31 January 2009 (BST)
- The original replies have been consolidated in a new article at Stoneham Park House. Admin 16:56, 10 August 2009 (BST)
- Hello Harry, My husband and I now live in Bracken Hall (old Fred Woolley House) and for 2 years we have been trying to find some photos of what it used to look like, with no luck. You can imagine how delighted we were to see these photos on your website. If you know of any where else we can see other photos we would love to know. Regards, Dezrie dezrie 16 March 2009 (BST)
- Dezrie, many thanks for your message. I do hope you enjoy living at Bracken Hall! We hold quite a few photos, but they tend to be photos of people with the house in the background. I will track some more down for you. If you're interested, there is a set of architect's drawings for the house, dating from around 1914. They are in Hampshire Record Office: ref. 34M74/BP1273. Best wishes, Harry Admin 20 March 2009 (BST)
- Hi Harry, Thanks for posting the extra photos. Kind regards, Dezrie dezrie 29 March 2009 (BST)
- Dezrie, many thanks for your message. I do hope you enjoy living at Bracken Hall! We hold quite a few photos, but they tend to be photos of people with the house in the background. I will track some more down for you. If you're interested, there is a set of architect's drawings for the house, dating from around 1914. They are in Hampshire Record Office: ref. 34M74/BP1273. Best wishes, Harry Admin 20 March 2009 (BST)
Rackland Manor
The Fleming Estate on the IOW included a manor called Rackland or Racklands -- I can't find any information about this, or where it was. Can anyone help? Admin 29 February 2008 (BST)
- There is a lovely old manor house called Wacklands Manor at Newchurch, Isle of Wight. I can't help but wonder if this might be the place you're looking for. Perhaps the name was originally Racklands but altered over the years..... maybe a previous owner had trouble pronouncing his 'r's! If it is the same property, it's described in local estate agents' details as a Grade II Listed Georgian Farmhouse believed to date back to 1736 with land extending to approximately 13.5 acres. If anyone has £1.5m to spare, or would like to see a picture, the full details are online at http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-17003995.rsp?pa_n=2&tr_t=buy. Caroline 23 March 2008 (BST)
- Caroline, thank you for this -- it does seem a bit of a coincidence that there was a manor called Wackland so close by. (I also have difficulty with my Rs.) There must surely be a connection ... The Victoria County History does not mention Wackland as having anything to do with the Flemings, yet the naming of manors is often very confused, and they can have aliases, or even be partitioned. Admin 25 March 2008 (BST)
C and E CURTIS, housebreakers of Southampton
I am trying to find out more about this Southampton firm, and trace anyone connected with it -- can anyone help? In 1921, Curtis and Curtis were based at Oak Works in Augustine Road and at 203 Northam Road in Southampton. By 1930 they also had premises at Union Road. I think the firm came to an end soon after 1951. Admin 29 August 2008 (BST)
Death certificate of Charlotte Malazine Serle died 1859
How can I view a certified copy of the death certificate of Charlotte Malazine Serle died in 1859? Brian Johnston
- Here it is: Admin 17:04, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
Coward family of North Stoneham
Hello everyone. I've been looking at my paternal family tree that goes back to 1701 so far. My paternal surname is Coward and the majority of them lived in North Stoneham so I'm guessing that the Coward's that appear on Coward's Farm are my ancestors. I just wondered if anyone had any information about Coward's farm or associated Cowards. Sarah Coward, William Coward and Henry Coward appear quite a lot on this website so if anyone has any info on these in particular. Also, in 1824 there was a Coward and a Bushell that were convicted for non payment of fines for poaching on the Willis Fleming Estate - could anyone shed any light on which Coward it was and also any detail on the actual crime and ensuing events. I was watching Victorian Farm a little while ago and it said that poaching wasn't just for the sake of poaching but more to get the birds off the fields and land that they worked so hard on. Would really appreciate any info that anyone has! thanks in advance and here's hoping. Jill Harrington, nee Coward
Rackland Manor.
Being rather new to this wonderful site I was very interested in the entry about Rackland Manor.I believe that it is in fact on the coast ,south of Shanklin.About 10 years ago I noticed an advertisment in Country Life magazine for a really nice seaside Villa.I contacted the Agents to send me details.When they arrived I was suprised to read that it was built ,they thought,by the Willis Fleming family.Indeed,one of the pictures in the brochure showed the family Coat of Arms over the front door.Old Swinton 20:21, 23 May 2010 (BST)David R Knowles 23.05.2010
- This is really interesting - it would be good to find out some more about this ... Admin 10:41, 22 June 2010 (BST)
Pyle Manor.
In the early 1960's Brig.John Browne Willis Fleming was living with his wife at Pyle Manor,Chale,IOW.Do you know if the family owned or rented or leased the Manor as i do not see it mentioned elsewhere.Old Swinton 15:39, 24 May 2010 (BST)24.05.2010.
- Pyle Manor was bought by J B P Willis Fleming in the 1960s, when he moved back to live on the isle of Wight, and so historically Pyle had not been part of the Fleming Estate. However, the Fleming family did own other property in Chale, Kingston, and Shorwell, as a deed of 1600 reveals. Admin 10:39, 22 June 2010 (BST)
Orpet family
I have information that William Orpet (Worpet in some records) was born on 18.03.1804 in Chilworth. His mother was Mary Orpet (Worpet) and he has no father on his birth certificate. He apparently lived on the Chilworth estate all his life and was a carpenter. Are there any records? I would like to trace his mother. Did she also work on the Chilworth Estate? (My great grandmother was an Orpet.) Catherine Harrison 03.08.2010
- Thank you. As you probably know, the Orpet family were living at Chilworth at the time of the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses at least. I'm surprised they don't appear on this document; one reason might be that they were sub-tenants in 1837, renting from another tenant. By 1851, William Orpet seems to be running the public house at Chilworth (the Clump Inn?), as well as being a carpenter. In 1854, William was an overseer for the poor for the parish. William Orpet of Chilworth was fined in 1868 for leaving his horse and cart unattended in Southampton. In 1871 William and Frances Orpett were living at Castle Cottage, Chilworth.
- The records are very patchy for the Chilworth Estate, unfortunately, especially for the early 19th century. The Willis Fleming family only acquired the estate in 1825, and I don't think there are any earlier estate records. If you want to see if the Orpet name goes further back at Chilworth, it might be worth looking at the survey of Chilworth made around 1650-1700 - it is at the Hampshire Record Office, ref. Clayton MSS 3M49/8.
- I hope other researchers might be able to help you more ... Harrywf 17:23, 5 August 2010 (BST)
Invercharron Estate
I am researching my wife's great grandfather, who is listed in the 1901 census of Scotland as; Robert Grant, residing at Invercharron, occupation Estate Manager. I wondered if the Willis Fleming Estate at Invercharron could be the "Estate" I am looking for. Thank you for any help you may give. Ramrod 09:10, 24 September 2010 (BST)
- Many thanks for your question. I think this is likely, if the Invercharron is at Ardgay in Sutherland. The Fleming family purchased the Invercharron estate in 1935/6. We do hold some details of people working on the estate at that time, which I will have a look at - but bear in mind that it will more than 30 years after the census. Do you know anything more about Robert Grant? Admin 09:46, 24 September 2010 (BST)
Robert Grant was born 3rd Oct 1865 in Dornoch Sutherland, where he continued to reside until about 1881.
He married Hughina Fraser in Inverness during 1893. Then in 1901 was resident in Invercharron, Kincardine parish with his Wife, son William 6 and daughter Mary Ann 3 both born at Ardgay.
His registered occupation;- Estate Manager, also residing with the family was Isabella Nicol a domestic housekeeper.
I notice from your 1938 rent roll, a Grant R, Invercharron, could this be the Robert Grant I am searching for? Many thanks, ramrod.
Wallace Barton, Lynn Farm IOW
Can you give me any information about the above who was the tenant of Lynn Farm in 1912. Thankyou Grabadoc 12:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Jacob and Rebecca Weston
Jacob and his sister Rebeccca Weston are shown as living in Bassett in the N Stoneham census of 1851 - he is shown as a baker. Any record of a bakery? Jacob has died by 1861, in the census Rebecca is shown in Bassett Lane running a grocer shop, and again in 1871 (by which time she is 81 years old!). I have seen reference to Miss Weston as a tenant on the archives here. Any information on this family or their bakery/shop would be much appreciated. Paddy 11:59, 20 October 2011 (BST)
Doncaster Farm Doncaster farm is now a car park,which is beside Avenue Park.I noticed looking up Farms on this webpage that the Doncaster farm fields were where the Doncaster Estate in Eastleigh is now.I do remember the farm,which is now a car park.It was a small farm.It seems strange to me that the Farm's fields were some way away.
